C v. A: Theological Debate Condensed
My friend Jeremy’s summary of Five Point Calvinism (TULIP): “God wins.”
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My friend Jeremy’s summary of Five Point Calvinism (TULIP): “God wins.”
My friend Jeremy’s summary of Five Point Calvinism (TULIP): “God wins.”
Thom Says:
Hmmmm.. (T)otal Depravity - we are incapable of saving ourselves by any means or standard of morality or moral behavior; (U)nconditional Election - We do not have to convince God by some element of character or consistency of virtue that we are worth something, or, putting it another way, there is nothing in us worth saving, so where election occurs it must be based on some other factor which has nothing to do with our works; (L)imited atonement - Christ’s sacrifice is the absolute remedy for each and every sin way commit. He didn’t just earn a possibility, but a certainty strong enough upon which to place unshakeable faith; (I)rresistable grace - so twisted and fallen is our inner nature without God that his holiness and a righteous life smells like death to us, and so we cannot be relied upon to “choose” for we, like Lot, would choose the self and its destruction every time; (P)erseverance of the saints - Christ’s death and resurrection saves to the uttermost against the influence of any sin in our lives. What he has done for us is truly enough for us in the court of God’s justice.
All of this to say, I have to disagree with Jeremy. Each point of the unhelpful, though memorable, TULIP, has more to do with our need and God’s supply than with “God wins.” Therefore, I offer: God loves.
Admittedly, I like yours better. <G>
That’ll teach us to joke about something so important!
I do wonder if there’s anything here about the Jungian typology-bias here. Jeremy and I are both INTx types, and the answer to the classic question “justice or mercy?” supposedly points to T or F, respectively. (I think this too simplistic, especially for the Christian, because inevitably we must say not only “Both!” but “Mercy, for where would I be without Christ?” But it is the tendency of `T’ types to err on justice’s side at first glance.
Yours is the more thoughtful answer, and I appreciate it.
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September 26th, 2005 at 08:29:22
Hmmmm.. (T)otal Depravity - we are incapable of saving ourselves by any means or standard of morality or moral behavior; (U)nconditional Election - We do not have to convince God by some element of character or consistency of virtue that we are worth something, or, putting it another way, there is nothing in us worth saving, so where election occurs it must be based on some other factor which has nothing to do with our works; (L)imited atonement - Christ’s sacrifice is the absolute remedy for each and every sin way commit. He didn’t just earn a possibility, but a certainty strong enough upon which to place unshakeable faith; (I)rresistable grace - so twisted and fallen is our inner nature without God that his holiness and a righteous life smells like death to us, and so we cannot be relied upon to “choose” for we, like Lot, would choose the self and its destruction every time; (P)erseverance of the saints - Christ’s death and resurrection saves to the uttermost against the influence of any sin in our lives. What he has done for us is truly enough for us in the court of God’s justice.
All of this to say, I have to disagree with Jeremy. Each point of the unhelpful, though memorable, TULIP, has more to do with our need and God’s supply than with “God wins.” Therefore, I offer: God loves.
September 26th, 2005 at 15:57:48
Admittedly, I like yours better. <G>
That’ll teach us to joke about something so important!
I do wonder if there’s anything here about the Jungian typology-bias here. Jeremy and I are both INTx types, and the answer to the classic question “justice or mercy?” supposedly points to T or F, respectively. (I think this too simplistic, especially for the Christian, because inevitably we must say not only “Both!” but “Mercy, for where would I be without Christ?” But it is the tendency of `T’ types to err on justice’s side at first glance.
Yours is the more thoughtful answer, and I appreciate it.